Posts by Joe Grundy

11

Bible Authority - A Cop-Out?

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.. this is a quote from paul's jwfacts site about christadelphians (not a million miles removed from jws):.

"the bible is god's word and the only message from him.

it is without error, except for copying and translation errors.".

Joe Grundy

Mentions in other threads 'inspired' me to consider this point.

This is a quote from Paul's JWFacts site about Christadelphians (not a million miles removed from JWs):

"The Bible is God's word and the only message from him. It is without error, except for copying and translation errors."

That opens a can of worms, doesn't it?

Another recent thread prompted me to watch the Bart Ehrman youtube lecture 'Misquoting Jesus' on copying and translating errors - fascinating - and led me to the (not original) thought that once one allows for 'copying and translation errors' combined with deciding which bits were literal and wich allegorical (144,000 anybody?) - let alone later 'corrective interpolations' - one can just about make the Bible say anything one wants.

I was brought up in the Plymouth Brethren where there are no clergy but every 'brother' (keep quiet, sisters!) is expected to be his own student and unsurprisingly their history is characterised (as so many cults/sects of the time) by doctrinal splits. (JWs avoided this by rigid centralised authority a la Rutherford). Well-meaning in the most part but hopelessly under-educated in the most important part of their lives (religion) and prepared to make other peoples' lives a misery because of their own unbending beliefs.

And, of course, to question is to put oneself beyond the pale.

Sad, in so many ways.

29

Suggestion for JWFacts

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

i have a suggestion for jwfacts, and to help make the article easier to write for paul, the collective jwn community can help.. in his article of "religions similar to jehovah's witnesses",.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php.

paul uses mormons, cristadelphians, etc.... i suggest he also use iglesia ni cristo.

Joe Grundy

I hope that no-one takes offence at this - it's not meant to be offensive, merely recounting my experiences.

I lived in Cyprus 2005-2010 and had many friends in the filipino community there, including a Filipina fiancee and a Filipina who became my ex-wife no. 2. Religion was very important to very many of them, but it didn't seem to matter too much which religion it was as long as there was a sense of community and (importantly) a good social scene. Not surprising, of course, in a mistreated and expoilted community of ex-pats which the Filipinas surely were.

Most I spoke to had no idea of even the basics of the creed they subscribed to and were equally happy in the most orthodox RC church and the most charismatic pentecostilist protestant groups. It was far more about the social and supportive side of things.

Which, come to think about it, isn't so much different from many adherents to whatever religion, including JWs. Ask specific questions about the particular doctrines and beliefs of 'their' group and how they differ and you're unlikely (IME) to get a cogent and succinct response.

In particular reference to this religion, when one considers the pinoy diaspora (almost universally an exploited minority) it isn't surprising that it proliferates.

11

Sausage or Bacon?

by Quarterback in

jw
friends

when bethel serves pancakes, do they give you a choice?

is it only 1 choice.

it sure would be a deal breaker for me if i didn't get to choose between bacon, or sausages.

Joe Grundy

This is, sadly, where our American cousins go wrong.

A 'proper' breakfast is: two sausages, two rashers of smoked bacon ('Canadian' I think they call it), mushrooms, black pudding, grilled tomato, baked beans, two fried eggs, fried bread, served with toast and strong tea.

And for the 'real deal' - if you're Welsh - laver bread rolled in oatmeal and fried in the bacon fat.

Now THAT'S a breakfast.

28

Deuteronomy 22:28,29. Thank Jebus nobody pays attention to this f*cked up part of "God's inspired word" any more.

by DuvanMuvan in

28 if a man happens to meet a virgin girl who is not engaged and he seizes her and lies down with her and they are discovered,+29 the man who lay down with her must give the girls father 50 silver shekels, and she will become his wife.+ because he humiliated her, he will not be allowed to divorce her as long as he lives.

" -nwt 2013 revised edition.

was just on the thread about lot and his messed up family life and was reminded of another part of the bible that made me feel physically sick the first time i read it.

Joe Grundy

Marked

4

'Memorial Invitation' Delivery

by Joe Grundy in

mine was delivered today.

(they are cheap and crap leaflets, aren't they?

i wasn't in the mood and didn't have time for a discussion, but no worries, neither did they.

Joe Grundy

Mine was delivered today. (They are cheap and crap leaflets, aren't they? Quite apart from anything else.)

I wasn't in the mood and didn't have time for a discussion, but no worries, neither did they. Two pleasant ladies of indeterminate age, could have been 30s up. 'Sensibly dressed' (couple of steps up from Amish).

Said 'We don't want to take your time, here's an invitation' and they were gone.

Another tick in the box, I suppose.

132

the bible and its prophecies

by Crazyguy in

i have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.

its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.

but what i don't get is the prophecies.

Joe Grundy

"

I’ve found that when people reject the gospel message and become embittered, that they lose all perspective. Atheists also lose the ability to act in their own self interest as well as their own self worth. It’s also almost inevitable, because suddenly life has no meaning. They spend the rest of their lives kicking against the pricks, so to speak, completely confident that when life is over there’s nothing. They see religion as a form of self deception — a mirage on the horizon with form but no substance. Each one creates his or her own values and concepts of morality, each of which can be dispensed with should it become necessary. And in my entire life, I’ve never seen an atheist who was selfless, loving of his fellow man, noble, virtuous, inspiring, imbued with integrity or having the ability to mete out justice balanced with mercy. One need only look at the recent crop: Dawkins, Hitchens, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Margaret Sanger, Bill Maher and many others, and their idea of helping out their fellow man is to tear down crosses, eliminate the ten commandments from schools and state property and, oh yes, provide free abortions to whoever wants one. It’s very rare that you’ll find one in a soup kitchen or on a suicide hotline.

So it shouldn’t be a surprise that atheists on this site tend to be bitter, self-serving, arrogant know-it-alls who frequently spout off their own opinions without bothering to elucidate them with substantive facts. They reduce anything they don’t like to it’s lowest common denominator and then they try to hack it apart, all the while ballyhooing their own baseless opinions as if their merits were self evident. Some have even publicly declared themselves to be “brights” as opposed to the stupid, run-of-the-mill saps who cling to their Bibles and their guns.

These goigts have a right to their views, of course, but it’s their rudeness and insufferable lack of tolerance that makes them so delightful to be around and to engage in friendly banter. So don’t let anyone tell you atheism isn’t a religion. It’s a religion that seizes upon one’s mind and ultimately makes a person spiritually enfeebled in the process. This causes them to think religion degrades a person (as is evident from the posts on this forum), but in the end it really makes them curmudgeons."

As an atheist, I could (if I cared enough) be offended by this nonsensical, deluded, load of bollocks.

And that's about enough of a reply as it warrants.

158

Circuit Accounts Servants Confesses how the SCAM WORKS!!

by JT in

jw
friends

yes, i too have wondered how an assembly that is held in a fully paid for assembly hall, with no food service, could possibly have $10,000 in expenses.

i suppose the bethel speakers have transportation expenses - maybe $1000 or so.

as for rent on the assembly hall, well you have already paid for it once, why pay again?

Joe Grundy

Marked

20

Anglican school phobia

by Frazzled UBM in

after a long and frustrating houe search in london we finally found a place that fitted all our requirements and my wife seemed happy with and i was successful in the bidding process and had our offer accepted even though it wasn't the highest beacuse we can exchange contracts quickly and now we have lawyers working on exchanging contracts soon.

so everything is going swimmingly and then my wife demands that we go and look at a house being offered by the same agent we used to make the offer on the house we are buying.

i am like wtf, if we ask the agent to see another property they will tell the vendors for the place we are buying and they will revoke acceptance of our offer and we will be back to square one.

Joe Grundy

F-UBM: Just some idle thoughts. I never was a JW, but I do have a Filipina ex-wife and I was, some time ago, a governor of a church Voluntary-Aided school.

Maybe your wife is relating back to the Philippines where, as you know, religious influence is very strong (mainly RC but also non-conformist protestant). Perhaps you could reassure her that in the UK (or in England, rather) CofE schools are a historical throwback (all mixed up with Church and State, etc.) and if there wasn't a sign outside no-one would know the difference.

Forgive me if I'm out of order but this may be a bit of cultural difference as well as (or more than) the JW thing. House purchase is always difficult (in London many times more so) and IMHO you should stick to your guns. Would it help if you and she visited the school and she could see for herself just how non-religious CofE schools are? I recall having discussions with the head of the CofE school, who had no religious beliefs whatsoever. The parish vicar wasn't sure whether he was a christian, a buddhist, an atheist or all three.

IMHO all religious indoctrination of children is pernicious. CofE schools are perhaps the least pernicious.

Best wishes to you and good luck with it all.

15

Mormons = Anyone Aware of This?

by Joe Grundy in

anyone aware of this?.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10619538/head-of-mormon-church-thomas-monson-summoned-by-british-magistrates-court-over-adam-and-eve-teaching.html.

Joe Grundy

BOTR: This highlights a major difference between the US and the UK. Others will be able to discuss this more 'learnedly' than I can. In the UK much is done by subtle understanding of a thousand (or more) years of history. Overall it seems to work OK. One difference may be that movements such as the Millerites, Mormons, JWs, etc., are seen as 'recent' aberrations (less than 200 years old) whereas most towns/cities/villages have churches at least 800+ years old. This may affect thinking.

15

Mormons = Anyone Aware of This?

by Joe Grundy in

anyone aware of this?.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10619538/head-of-mormon-church-thomas-monson-summoned-by-british-magistrates-court-over-adam-and-eve-teaching.html.

Joe Grundy

It's an interesting use of the English & Welsh criminal court system (can't speak for the Scottish system) which has largely fallen into disuse. An aggrieved party alleging a criminal offence presents his case to a magistrate. The magistrate - in his role as Examining Justice - determines whether there is prima facie evidence of an offence, can issue summonses and directs the investigation (this is the French/Continental model) and can issue arrest warrants.

Nowadays in E&W the practice is usually different but it harks back to this system - all citizens are granted powers of arrest without warrant but 'constables' have powers of arrest in wider circumstances (basically 'on suspicion').

This is a District Judge who has issued the summons. DJs are qualified lawyers (most magistrates are lay people) and Westminster MC is not known for allowing frivolous cases.

The difficulty - as noted above - is following the case through. If the summons is ignored a warrant for arrest will be issued. That brings the extradition issue into play - and the US is notoriously not keen to extradite its citizens. But an EU arrest warrant could be issued which might lead to the 'interesting' situation where the Head Honcho (aka Inspired Chief Prophet or whatever) cannot travel anywhere in the EU for fear of arrest. Will their god protect him, or is this an indication of the Persecution all cults thrive on?

Whatever, anything that brings ridiculous beliefs and practices to public notice is a Good Thing, IMHO.